Dear Atheists
Instead of trolling the internet looking for somewhere to cut & paste your collective opinion, why don’t you answer this very simple question.
You don’t want to believe there’s a higher power that created us, life, the world and the universe, so what’s your proposed alternative? Is it magic? It’s magic isn’t it?!
It’s not just wrong because you say so and evolution isn’t the answer, it’s a circle that keeps coming back to “but where did that come from?”, and you run out of answers before you run out of questions. The big bang isn’t the answer either – and yes I’m happy to believe it happened – because the question doesn’t stop there. Where did the materials for it come from.
Where did the first particle of non-nothingness come from, and how did it become galaxies and universes and planets and life?
Seems kind of hard to believe the possible answers if there was no higher power involved. Did it just “always” exist? Did it just “appear”?
Until you’ve actually formed an argument that irrefutably proves there’s no higher power, how about you step off your high horses and explain why. Attacking the Bible is not an answer, all it does is unsurprisingly demonstrate that a book by written by hundreds of authors over hundreds of years might not be true. Shock. Fucking. Horror!
Please also feel free to stop acting like it’s an achievement to be an atheist. Deciding you’re an atheist is about as impressive a feat as deciding to have a Quarter Pounder over the Big Mac.
Love,
A non devout, educated Catholic who believes there is a god, even if the Bible doesn’t get the story right.
By your own argument, then where did god come from?
How is it that he can “always exist” but the universe can’t?
skeptic
May 25, 2007
I’m not saying God always existed. I’m saying there’s a higher power than us.
Presumably a higher power made the higher power we refer to as God. And so on and so forth, until eventually you reach whatever started it all.
The only thing I’m sure of is there’s more to the universe, even our own planet, than just us.
The rest I leave to faith, which is no more or less ridiculous than announcing there’s no higher power with no alternate explanation.
cynicallyspeaking
May 25, 2007
Hello, i just wanted to make a statement about atheists..i myself am one, and yes you are right. I cannot tell you how the earth was made or how the big bang happened before it happened. but then again one of the reasons why i am atheist is becuase i dont care. i dont care whether it was god himself or whether it was a particle in the dust..i really dont, which is one of the reasons why i am atheist. sure ive read the bible when i was catholic, and didnt really care about it…so not all atheists are anticatholic or antigod..im atheist becuase i simply dont care who came first or what really happened. i live on earth NOW, not before or not after.why should what happen before me matter in the life i lead now, and same goes for after. after im dead, i really wont care how the world is, same as i didnt really care how the world was before i was alive…but whatever i dont care, which is why im atheist..
WHO CARS
May 25, 2007
We don’t know where the stuff from the big bang came from. But having a God that was always around makes just as much sense as a bunch of matter that’s always been there. No matter which camp you’re in you still have the same question: “Where did it come from?”
Also, it’s impossible to prove that a higher power doesn’t exist. If there is an all powerful God that doesn’t want us to prove that he exists, we’re not going to be able to prove that he exists. How are you supposed to prove/disprove that something invisible that wouldn’t even exist in the same dimension as us? The entire question is absurd because you cant use conventional methods to prove it! Until you can prove that the Invisible Pink Unicorn and the Flying Spaghetti Monster don’t exist, how can you prove that higher power/deity exists?
bill
May 25, 2007
I agree it makes just as much (lack of) sense. But if you can’t disprove something, how can you argue against it?
If Atheists want to argue against organised religion, which has many flaws, or the Bible, even though it’s widely acknowledged it shouldn’t be taken literally, then that’s fine.
But if they want to argue there’s no God and ridicule anyone who believes in God, then some justification would be a lovely and overdue change.
cynicallyspeaking
May 25, 2007
I can answer your question about 7 billion different ways, but let’s only try a few to begin with:
1. Even if I can’t explain where everything comes from, there is absolutely no reason to believe that god is the answer. Using your argument it is just as likely that a pink rabbit created the universe. Prove me wrong;
2. The fact that as an atheist I cannot explain a certain fact at a given point in time, does not mean that I will not be able to do so in the future. Barely one hundred years ago, people barely had a grasp of electricity and radioactivity, to name just two. Now we understand both. The answers may come in the future, and the fact that I currently don’t have a satisfactory answer does not mean that your deus-ex-machina is the correct answer.
3. If you make an extraordinary claim – i.e. that some sort of super being created the universe, you are the one that must bring evidence to prove this claim. I don’t bear the burden to disprove your claim. Once again: I claim that a pink bunny created the universe. Is it your burden to prove me wrong, or do I need to justify my claim?
4. Science is responsible for many things you depend on for your every day existence, from modern medicine to air travel. Science is a way of thinking about the world that has generated and continues to generate tangible and useful results that improve humanity’s lot. Religion does not create such tangible benefits, if anything it slows down humanity’s progress. For example: remember the Church’s attitude to Galileo; consider modern Christianity’s attitude toward evolution. Religion is always on the wrong side of the equation. When choosing between a system that is consistently proven factually wrong (religion) – and a system that continuously improves our day-to-day life, the choice to me seems simple. Let god, if it exists, fend for itself.
I am sticking with Science. You can enjoy your church services.
Shadox
May 25, 2007
If you’re happy to believe a giant pink bunny created everything then that’s fine with me. But if I should tell you your giant pink bunny doesn’t exist then it becomes my responsibility to justify my argument.
That’s how debate works – you contest something, with justification. Otherwise it’s just an opinion.
The extraordinary claim is *both* the existance and denial of a higher power, but since Atheists are the ones contesting it justification isn’t theist’s responsibility.
The religion you mention as holding back humanity – I agree completely. Organised religion is severely flawed. It’s the cause of many wars and deaths, it restricts medical research, science and technological advances, and for centuries it imprisoned people in the realms of serfdom, illiteracy and slavery and women in the role of property.
But that only proves that religion is flawed, which is akin to blaming Samsung if the show on tv is crap.
cynicallyspeaking
May 25, 2007
Both you (believer person) and quite a few of (dumb) athiests simply miss the point. A lot of sensible athiests simply don’t care about what you are arguing about. I would rather learn about the cosmos than theorize whether a consciousnesss created it. Its far less interesting to blow endless gas and argue about something that can never be decided one way or another.
I suggest that (cynically speaking) you actually are more interested in drawing attention to yourself than having a serious theological debate. Your vanity shines through far more clearly than any apparent religious conviction you may have.
And your particular type of argument has been argued about 8 billion times before – a (much better) version of it appeared in the middle ages.
Look up St. Anselms Ontological Proof of the Existence of God to see what I mean.
Now that was a smart believer. I, as an athiest would love to sit down and talk to him about his ideas. Alas, he’s dead, and instead we’re left with half-witted trolls like you…
Damien
May 25, 2007
That’s basically the argument that St. Thomas Aquinias uses for the existence of God so your in good company. BTW God is eternal, it’s a mystery we can not comprehend.
Dave
May 25, 2007
*sigh*
I think Dave has unwittingly revealed the true nature of this disagreement. It has less to do with how it began and more to do with how each of us (theist and atheist) approach the question:
atheist (shadox): We don’t know, but we’re going to try to figure it out. (“The fact that as an atheist I cannot explain a certain fact at a given point in time, does not mean that I will not be able to do so in the future.”)
theist (dave): We don’t know so god must have done it, now stop asking so many questions. (“BTW God is eternal, it’s a mystery we can not comprehend.”)
I don’t know about any of you, but I’m pretty comfortable choosing the atheist’s argument on this one.
hausen
May 25, 2007